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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, that\u2019s correct. Atime, mtime and ctime can be changed, in addition, if the file is under an immutable fileset, mtime and ctime can be changed, atime is overloaded with expiration time.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><hupancha@in.ibm.com> on behalf of "scale@us.ibm.com" <scale@us.ibm.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 8:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org><br>
<b>Cc: </b>gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org>, "juergen.hannappel@desy.de" <juergen.hannappel@desy.de>, "p.ward@nhm.ac.uk" <p.ward@nhm.ac.uk>, Haizhu Liu <haizhu@us.ibm.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From design docs can see that Spectrum scale allows changing of timestamps for immutable files.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">+ Haizhu to confirm this as well.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Regards, The Spectrum Scale (GPFS) team<br>
<br>
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If you feel that your question can benefit other users of Spectrum Scale (GPFS), then please post it to the public IBM developerWroks Forum at
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If your query concerns a potential software error in Spectrum Scale (GPFS) and you have an IBM software maintenance contract please contact 1-800-237-5511 in the United States or your local IBM Service Center in other countries.
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The forum is informally monitored as time permits and should not be used for priority messages to the Spectrum Scale (GPFS) team.</span><br>
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<img border="0" width="16" height="16" style="width:.1666in;height:.1666in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.gif@01D84352.57823540" alt="Inactive hide details for "Paul Ward" ---28-03-2022 06.56.04 PM---Hi Jürgen, We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to t"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#424282">"Paul
Ward" ---28-03-2022 06.56.04 PM---Hi Jürgen, We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to test immutability on our newly installed</span><br>
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<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Paul Ward" <p.ward@nhm.ac.uk></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"gpfsug main discussion list" <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">28-03-2022 06.56 PM</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[EXTERNAL] Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"gpfsug-discuss" <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hi Jürgen,</span></tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
<tt>We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to test immutability on our newly installed solution.</tt><br>
<tt>We tried using touch with a date in the past to test the expiry date.</tt><br>
<tt>We noticed although touch changed the timestamp, it didn't change wherever the policy engine checked.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>We found a work around for our testing, so I think we accepted it as a 'feature'.
</tt><br>
<tt>I can't find a support ticket, so I am assuming we didn't report it.</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Kindest regards,</tt><br>
<tt>Paul</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Paul Ward</tt><br>
<tt>TS Infrastructure Architect</tt><br>
<tt>Natural History Museum</tt><br>
<tt>T: 02079426450</tt><br>
<tt>E: p.ward@nhm.ac.uk</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org> On Behalf Of Hannappel, Juergen</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: 28 March 2022 13:25</tt><br>
<tt>To: gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org></tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>... if I try a similar action e.g on ext4 where I can use the posix way with ioctl(fd, FS_IOC_GETFLAGS, &flags) flags |= FS_IMMUTABLE_FL; ioctl(fd, FS_IOC_SETFLAGS, &flags)</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>the touch fails and the mtime remains unchanged....</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>----- Original Message -----</tt><br>
<tt>> From: "Juergen Hannappel" <juergen.hannappel@desy.de></tt><br>
<tt>> To: "gpfsug main discussion list" <gpfsug-discuss@spectrumscale.org></tt><br>
<tt>> Sent: Monday, 28 March, 2022 11:50:50</tt><br>
<tt>> Subject: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be </tt>
<br>
<tt>> touched</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>> Hi,</tt><br>
<tt>> I have an immutable file in an immutable folder:</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> mmchattr -i yes mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> mmchattr -i yes mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> ls -la mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> total 18</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 2 hannappj it 4096 Mar 28 11:45 .</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 7 hannappj it 8192 Mar 28 11:45 ..</tt><br>
<tt>> -rw-r--r-- 1 hannappj it 30 Mar 28 11:45 file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> mmlsattr -L mutabilityTest mutabilityTest/file | grep immu</tt><br>
<tt>> immutable: yes</tt><br>
<tt>> immutable: yes</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Now i do a touch:</tt><br>
<tt>> touch mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> no error, and the modification time is changed:</tt><br>
<tt>> ls -la mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> total 18</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 2 hannappj it 4096 Mar 28 11:45 .</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 7 hannappj it 8192 Mar 28 11:45 ..</tt><br>
<tt>> -rw-r--r-- 1 hannappj it 30 Mar 28 11:46 file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> stat mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> File: 'mutabilityTest/file'</tt><br>
<tt>> Size: 30 Blocks: 2 IO Block: 4194304 regular file</tt><br>
<tt>> Device: 2eh/46d Inode: 112989 Links: 1</tt><br>
<tt>> Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: (28851/hannappj) Gid: ( 1000/ it)</tt><br>
<tt>> Access: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> Modify: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> Change: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Shouldn't the immutability of the file include its change time?</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> --</tt><br>
<tt>> Dr. Jürgen Hannappel DESY/IT Tel. : +49 40 8998-4616</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
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